Adam -  sorry you feel that way.  Kevin has really more on his plate than he can handle.  With his duties at GPAA, the Gold Shows, and the Gold Trails schedule.  Add to that he is probably up at Cripple River for the season up there.  And that is most likely the tip of the iceburg, since he has to fit in a personal life in there somewhere.   No wonder he can't be here on a daily schedule.  When you understand the demands on him, it would be more profitable to cut the man some slack.

 

Other staff members, Walt in particular, and members of the forum at least try to answer if they know.

Adam,
I have been on the road since the 14th of August with limited to really bad internet service while myself and Team Endeavor have been in the eastern states revitalizing the Oconee and Vein Mountain LDMA camps. Not an excuse for not being here but a pretty dang good reason. In many cases with substandard internet services it is virtually impossible for me to download the content of the sites. In the cases that I do not responded in a timely manner always feel free to email me. khoagland@goldprospectors.org if I have enough connectivity to receive emails I am able to respond quicker in most cases.
Thank you Arthur for jumping in as well. Yes I do have a heavy schedule and I will always answer when I am able.
I will also be checking with out IT department to assure that when a post is made to this site that I receive a notification that there is a new posting. Most of the time it works but there have been a few instances that members of the Media Team have had to let me know there is a topic waiting on me (as with this one).
I am in my office for a couple of weeks and will be catching up on and responding to older and new topics before heading out for Gold Shows and working with a great deal of the chapters in the Eastern United States.
With all of that said, Adam, What can I do for you buddy?

   Well then Kevin needs to turn it over to someone else. His silence is like listening to Crickets for days on end waiting for answers.

 

  The lack of participation by the leaders of the website is really a shame for our cause...This website's 'Leader' without mentioning names (His awesome Grandfather started all of this) only has 34 posts...34 posts??? Really??? Can you say there's real leadership here???

 

   Change is badly needed here, together we're strong, divided we're weak and we're prey to the very people who are slowly banning Gold panning all together.

 

   Do something...Anything...YOU need to act to save our 1872 Mining Act rights before it's too late...

As a new member but not new to social media and website management... Adam is right in stating some obvious deficiencies.

I am too new to cast any stones so I won't. But I signed up super excited to interact with others who share our passion and to have real-time information on our active claims and was shocked to see neither are here. It sounds like Kevin is just not in a position to be actively and consistently involved with the website which I don't know enough about this membership yet to even say if that should be expected or not... But, I will say, I agree with Adam in that if you the GPAA wants to continue to grow then the GPAA needs to improve the leadership and get active members in place to better develop and manage this website.

Just consider, the same year that a 135 year old company who employed more than 100k employees went bankrupt was the same year a 2 year old company with only a dozen employees sold for more than 2 billion dollars... The first company was Kodak and the second was Instagram. The point... the GPAA today, needs to be more like Instagram and less like Kodak, if it wants to continue to grow.

Adam,
I responded to your post a week ago and clearly asked what I could do for you.

  #1 We need a leader with a plan to do something to save the 1872 Mining act. What's the plan forward? If we do nothing, the environmental extremists win...They will ban Gold panning all together, so again where's the plan to do something...Anything.  Organize a march to secure our rights.

 

#2 What's up with the PLP???  They seemed to be our only hope for winning this Ca. dredge fight, and now they are bent on destroying themselves from within...Take a stand, say something, do something, end this...Get the leaders involved. We wait day after day for answers, and all we get are the sounds of Crickets.

 

#3 Where's the leadership? Our leader has 34 posts. It sounds like he doesn't participate much. I really miss George Massie's lectures on Gold mining rights, his videos are still very moving. It's like listening to someone who warned us...And we did nothing to stop it. The anti-mining folks are winning, we are losing. We need leadership...Where is our leadership?

 

#4 Kevin you're awesome, I know you care, so don't be offended. I'm just sounding the alarm. The ban on Gold panning is in the works...That's why I asked you to do a show from the San Gabriel mountains east fork river...It's our Gold panning Disneyland that is now threatening to have all Gold panners arrested. It's now an illegal monument (NOT approved by Congress) Please highlight this to save this Gold mining treasure for the public.

 

Adam

Adam -

Leet me respond in part to #4.  I have been involved in land use for 40 years, ever since RARE II came out.  National Monuments do NOT require the consent of Congress.  They can be created by a stroke of the pen by the President.  Granted I think they should go through Congress, but that is the way the law reads now.  Areas of Critical Concern (ACEC), Research Natural Areas (RNA) are created by the USFS and BLM either during Plan Revisions or by amendments to existing plans.  All done with public involvement and the NEPA process.  Removal of those are also done by the same process.  Agencies are also tasked with partial or full closures to protect threatened or endangered species.  That can range from motorized closures to protect winter range and endangered plants, to full closure to protect species.  To my knowledge, only Designated Wilderness and Wild/Scenic Rivers requires and act of Congress to create

 

If you are not involved in commenting on Plan Revisions, attending meetings, letter writing to agencies and lawmakers, then that is the first step.  Granted it seems like it does not make much of a difference, but believe me it does.  I am a citizen member of a BLM Resource Advisory Council (for the past 13 years, and awaiting re-appointment for another term), and we see a lot of public comments on projects we have taken on, either by agency request or those that we feel we can make a difference on by providing input.

I don't know your level of involvement, so won't comment either way.  If you aren't involved, and I really hope you are, and all you do is gripe from the sidelines for someone else to do it, then we all lose.  And that goes for all of us, from motorized recreation, to miners, and other recreationists.

  Arthur, I thank you for all you do, and I should spend more time in the details like you do. I do write letters to Calif. Reps about our 1872 mining rights...to no response. I do complain to our two Calif. US Senators...to no response. I get involved to rally everyone...

 

    I get involved and have won a couple times. This side story revolved around classic cars in Calif. In the 90's, we marched on the Calif. Capitol. 10,000 of us united to stop Smog Check ll...Which would & intended to fail all old cars, then deny registrations, then collect them for crushing on code enforcement grounds...We won and stopped Smog check ll. Or at least we got a SB (Senate Bill) to exempt 1973 & older cars) And I was on our local Ch 10 news driving a 1970 Dodge Charger R/T with a 440ci engine with 3 carbs. I spoke in opposition to this car crushing law. They will wait until we're gone and classic cars are worth $70,000. Then they will be too expensive to buy & drive.

 

   Show me when the GPAA will get 10,000 miners to go to the Capitol to fight for our 1872 mining rights...and I'll be there. No problem, been there, done that. I ask where's the leadership at the GPAA??? I'm trying to rally everyone to do something...Anything (legal of course) before something like Smog Check ll or Miner Check ll happens.

 

 

I know where you speak on your Senators, I have two that are of the same stripe, and you can add in my Congressional Representative.  All are in the preservationist camp and will never budge.  I have better sucess talking to a big hunk of pertrified wood I have in the yard.

So I am sure that my comments seemingly come across as a distraction to the heart of this conversation... I imagine you might be asking, "Like who is this guy who keeps interrupting?" LOL... And, I have considered that as a brand new member with little knowledge on many of the topics and points brought up in this conversation, perhaps it's inappropriate to be injecting myself. But the reason I have is I saw Adam's comments regarding the "lack" of involvement here on the forums by the leadership, and had to get involved as I believe that I just may represent the type of members that I believe you will need to grow and based on the little I have seen and learned are failing to grow. What I have to say is only important if you believe that there is strength in numbers. The GPAA is the largest US based Gold Prospecting and Small Miners Organization but won't grow as fast as it can and should if the GPAA continues to fail in the following way... Which in my opinion goes to the heart of Adam's point.

I am brand new to Gold Prospecting... Only recently got the Gold Fever... My passion is in Metal Detecting which is a fast growing hobby that due to new technologies and the social media platforms such as YouTube and Instagram is quickly gaining the attention and interest of a much younger than ever before demographic. Gold Prospecting is also and likewise a more and more popular form of Metal Detecting, especially as Gold Prices continue to rise and in particular to us Detectorist out west where there aren't an abundance of old coins to be found.

So I joined the GPAA to learn and to socialize with others who share in this passion. What is so painfully obvious is that, so many members, former and current have come onto these forums to make a post or two to in way too many cases not ever get responded to ... Or the response came way too late! I have seen many "old timers" or the apparent leadership make all kinds of excuses to why it happens... But if the GPAA is going to continue to grow and grow as fast and as strong as it possibly can then the GPAA must evolve more quickly to gain and retain the attention and interest of newer members like me who are online (on here) looking to learn and interact with others in our hobby and or our profession. I (we), represent the future of this hobby. I have a ton of knowledge when it comes to websites, digital marketing and media and social media and as such ideas in this area as I am sure many members do as well... Use us and tap into our various skills to make this even better. Don't be like Kodak LOL

Adam,
What gave you the idea that Kevin Hoagland is "our" leader. Brandon Johnson is the president of the GPAA AND LDMA. Shannon Poe runs a group called American Mining Rights Assoc. AMRA that does a lot of the leadership in fighting for our rights. PLP has also been a leader in the fight. Brad Jones at GPAA try's to keep us all informed up to the minute here and on other social media sites. I have been a member for 3 years. GPAA is a great family, but like any other family it has its doers and it's talkers. Kevin is one of the doers, so he is rarely home and a lot of the places they ask him to go have lousy internet service, as he said, he responds to email on his phone a lot faster. Feel free to message me if you think I can help with a Mining question Arthur is a deep well of knowledge. And you will meet others.

    Shane has skills, and the desire to help in a way he can, they could indeed use his help. If people help this cause, just do what you can do. Maybe write letters, maybe technical stuff, maybe an awesome PR campaign on Gold Fever & Gold Trails. We could also use some skilled Constitutional lawyers, if they don't charge too much, maybe a fair % of our dues...Any Gold panning lawyers out there? Any media guys out there. The folks doing the most good are the Gold Fever & Gold Trails folks, the videos showing kids how to pan & the families camping & having an adventure is what it's all about.

 

  Roaring Camp has it right, it's a Gold panners Disneyland. The GPAA could use a few of those, like the Italian Bar LDMA camp, How awesome is the concept of GPAA Gold panning vacation camps? We might get more wives to go if there's bathrooms. etc., If Gold panning locations were a little more family friendly, you might book it solid like trying to get a Yosemite reservation in the Summer.

 

   Dreaming aside, this idea might help save the 1872 mining act. If we do nothing, and nobody goes to the Forests anymore, then the gates will be locked forever for environmental reasons...Visit your Forests America.

  Right on Kevin, thanks for that awesome post, you are for sure doing your share & more. It's my fault for kicking up the dust, I just see a cause needing help. Everybody on deck to save the 1872 mining act.

 

  Tim, I was referring to Brandon, but I understand he's working hard on the inside, not the website so much

Adam,
I agree Ms. Boxer and Ms. Feinstein do need to retire. I lived in California for 17 years. The politics there are fm another planet. I hope you enjoy your membership in the GPAA. And consider doing a LDMA outing you meet great people, learn a lot and find good gold gan feel free to message if you think I met hae an answer for you .

Well said everyone! This covers 90% of my concerns and have been on the fence for close to a year to send my certified letter to cancel the membership. Case in point I emailed on 8/30 and as of today 9/28 no response. My email wasn't even a question it was offering my help to volunteer my time at Vein Mountain FOR FREE.



Communication is everything especially on this site because it is the PRIMARY outlet for communicating with and amongst members. The second outlet would be the local chapters so I suppose your experience is only as good as their effectiveness with outreach and community involvement. For example, when I signed up from LDMA/GPAA I did not receive an email or phone call welcoming me as a local new member to join their group. If you ask me that is a failure to capitalize on new members to grow the footprint/effectiveness/outreach not only the chapter but the LDMA/GPAA organization as a whole.



Secondly, I noticed this Adam fella backed off after getting his response. Let's give it a few months and see the direction in which this goes. Then you will know if folks are really listening.



This is as far I am willing to provide my valuable time and feedback on this subject. I learned a long time ago to let people sink or swim on their own.

Adam,
I will do my absolute best to address all of your questions and concerns. My desire is to not offend you or anyone that may read this post. It may, because I knew the Buzzard and in that I may look at things differently than others because of things he shared. My answers are my thoughts and my words.

#1 We need a leader with a plan to do something to save the 1872 Mining act. What's the plan forward? If we do nothing, the environmental extremists win...They will ban Gold panning all together, so again where's the plan to do something...Anything. Organize a march to secure our rights.

Over the years the GPAA has supported and will continue to support the organizations that fight for our land rights. The Buzzard was right then and it still holds true today in Brandon in that we are a Membership organization, give the members the information they need to act.

Above and beyond the financial support, the GPAA supports groups in offering them a platform to inform our members on the current conditions and events that are taking place from coast to coast. Our editorial department keeps the members informed as information comes into us. And we have a rather intensive working relationship with all of the interested organizations that wish to work hand in hand with us in keeping members informed. The social media side of the GPAA and all organizations share information constantly to assure that, to the best of all of our abilities, what we need to know as members, is there or a couple of mouse clicks away.

In a group conversation with the Buzzard years ago when he was asked “What are you doing?” he replied “I am giving you the tools and giving you the information to stand up with all of us to protect what is ours.” George clearly saw the coming storm. In one of the videos that the media team put together they included one of the most recognized lines the Buzzard ever spoke, (paraphrased) “If you do not like what’s going on in Washington, vote the bugger out.” To me that has always meant that if I am informed and can share that information with others we can make a change. Here in Arizona we had a lifetime career politician that after many of us digging deep into their real agenda the information was distributed and they were voted out. It was not me or I it was us and ultimately the masses (many not related to mining) that acted in an informed manner to make a change.

I have always felt as a member that all of us share the responsibility in protecting our rights. It is not just the GPAA’s responsibility. The GPAA has always supplied the information I needed.
I was one of the early members of the organization called People for the West in the early 90’s and I will assure you that when I needed information or had information to share I could call the GPAA office. If there was no immediate answer to my questions they would help in finding one. Today it is easier to find information and answers to help each of us form a plan from the hundreds of websites available and many of these sites are outside of our industry. Whether it be for discussing things or writing letters to my local government, asking hard to answer questions of the Forest Service or BLM or my continued writing of letters to all branches of the government including a number of letters too past and our current president along with those running now for public office. I can assure that original letters and phone calls can work but they need to be in the masses.

And when I say all of us I mean all of us, in and out of this industry. I think I shared with you what happened when I was asked to speak to a mountain biking club here in Arizona that was trying to understand road closures in the forest. If not, I will recap the meeting. There was a great deal of the members of this club in attendance and most of them had no use for the Mining guy at all. I did not represent anything they believe in. Yet they were facing the same closures that we do. I was announced and came to the podium. I looked over the crowd slowly, thanked them for inviting me to discuss an unjust closure and said this. “I am a Miner I work under the foundations of the 1872 Mining Laws which grants me the Right to access areas within public lands for the intention of mineral and metal viable recovery. You on the other hand, were granted a privilege to these lands and that privilege has been revoked thank you for your time” and I walked off the stage. To this day members of this group still thank me for opening up their eyes and I have seen many of them that are standing side by side with other public land users, all of us with a dog in the fight.

Recently there was a talk show on HBO where the host talked about how the NRA has managed to fight off almost every gun legislation introduced for decades and even standing against the CDC in senseless research. All of this with under five million members nationwide. When you take into consideration that there are about 300,000,000 guns in the US the membership of the NRA is not that significant. But they continue to stop unfair and unjust laws by as the host said, “Showing up at every meeting everywhere and saying NO.” This is what is needed in our industry as well. There are those that will always be where we can to just stand up and say no. Yet there have been times that I have attending meetings where others have committed and I have stood alone. I can assure you that this has happened too others that I know and respect in the industry.

As for creating a demonstration or a protest march upon a state capitol, I’m all in if it can truly cause change. I am not being negative and please hear me out. Unless the national media is willing to cover the entire story including all of the background from all sides in a fair and unbiased manner and are willing to stay with it until there is change no matter how long it takes is there a benefit. Remember Occupy Wall Street?

Many times over the years there have been protest where officials have met with the protestors, swore change and once the event was over they went back to their offices and gave the matter little to no thought. A glaring example of this is former Brazilian President Dilma Rousseff, who publicly agreed with the frustrations of the countries protestors and promised that changes would be made, but those “changes” never happened. Yet when asked to rally again against the regime the first supporters said, “why bother”? They instead took to their computers, letter writing to all branches of the government and posting on social media to expose her. This year she was impeached. I for one feel that that was in a major part accomplished by relentless pressure from singular citizens acting as one demanding change.

Skip the onetime protest and rally all of your friends and put that energy into creating what all of the organizations including the GPAA, PLP, AMRA, WMA and others have been asking us if not begging us to do on a constant and unyielding basis for years. The Buzzard said it in the last century. Tell them how you feel and keep telling them. Make them listen and act or vote them out of office and get someone else that will listen.

Write your officials, use all of the resources we offer to know when the meetings are and show up at the meetings and get everyone you know to do the same. Not just today or tomorrow but every day that you and each of us feel we are losing our rights. Make them listen every day. Say NO.

In closing and stepping off my soapbox, quite frankly I do not believe that there has ever been a time that I have asked “What is the GPAA going to do for land rights?”, I’ve always asked “What can I do to help”. Again this may be because I knew and understood what the Buzzard was saying in that, it is all of us, not just a few of us. If we want change, we have to do it, not one organization, not one person, it is we the people.

#2 What's up with the PLP??? They seemed to be our only hope for winning this Ca. dredge fight, and now they are bent on destroying themselves from within...Take a stand, say something, do something, end this...Get the leaders involved. We wait day after day for answers, and all we get are the sounds of Crickets.

I cannot and will not speak to the current status of the PLP for the simple reason in that I do not know what is going on behind their closed doors and I refuse to speculate, quote things that I have heard but have no idea to the validity of the statement or say anything that would disparage any member of their current or past board.
Please understand that no matter what PLP is a company that has to answer within their own doors and not to us. In time, the matters that the PLP faces internally will be shared with the public but until that time I will not speculate.

#3 Where's the leadership? Our leader has 24 posts. It sounds like he doesn't participate much. I really miss George Massie's lectures on Gold mining rights, his videos are still very moving. It's like listening to someone who warned us...And we did nothing to stop it. The anti-mining folks are winning, we are losing. We need leadership...Where is our leadership?

Our leadership is very involved. You cannot consider a person’s activity on a forum site as their commitment to any cause.
I will assure you that the heads of fortune 100 companies rarely use social media. They, like Brandon prefer to be behind the camera over being in the forefront It allows him to do incredible work behind the scenes.

I will never attempt to speak for Brandon but I will share with you that in our interaction there is seldom a time that land rights are not a topic of discussion. If you read the posting from Brandon concerning the Reinhart case, you will clearly see an incredible amount of thought and a deep understanding of the entire case including question that are intended to allow members to understand the case and the ruling in a few short paragraphs. The timing of his response was immediate to the ruling of the case and in his writings he gave members the tools just as the Buzzard did to ask the right questions of officials.

He may not wear his passion on his sleeve as his Grandfather did but I can attest that his commitment runs as deep if not deeper.
#4 Kevin you're awesome, I know you care, so don't be offended. I'm just sounding the alarm. The ban on Gold panning is in the works...That's why I asked you to do a show from the San Gabriel mountains east fork river...It's our Gold panning Disneyland that is now threatening to have all Gold panners arrested. It's now an illegal monument (NOT approved by Congress) Please highlight this to save this Gold mining treasure for the public.

Adam, all that I said in the first part of this response holds true here as well. In Arizona we did not act quickly enough or in mass to stop the enactment by a former administration in stopping a monument creation nor did those that it effected join together to stop this from happening. It was a few people screaming into the storm. We were never heard and if we were, the cheers by the mass that were working to close the lands voice was much louder.

If we and I mean all of us as individuals and organizations continue to follow, or for some begin to follow the steps that were laid out years ago by great men like the Buzzard and Jerry Hobbs, we will have some victories and probably some losses. But we will have what both of these men and those that came after them envisioned.

Regards,

Kevin

Scott,
I apologize for not seeing your email sooner. I believe that the company address that it was sent from may have been a factor in my discovering it today (after reading your post) in my spam folder. I have marked your email and others in the future from the same domain as approved.

By the date that the email was sent Team Endeavor was well into both projects, had I seen your email I would have welcomed you involvement. May is surmise that I can put your name onto the roster for future projects in the Eastern US?