Dennis Lynch Greenhorn Posts:17 
| 16 Jul 2018 08:28 AM |
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I am a new member here in Northern California and have been to two claims so far. Both were unmarked in any way I could find. Most notably at the entry points, No notices of federal mining claim were anywhere to be found. The BLM land office in El Dorado Hills has told me unmarked claims are considered unprotected by them. On the Lady Bug claim there is an obvious public entry point with no claim signs and on S Able Granma there is a 4x4 road to a well developed camp site that also has no markings. I found the center marker for that claim exactly where the center of claim is located in the on line guide, but it was old and had no markings, just a metal pole that was rusting on the ground and a pile of rocks nearby. Does any one check or maintain the claims in California? Seems like no claim markers mean they are all open to the general public.
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ARTHUR WAUGH Advanced Member Posts:967
| 16 Jul 2018 08:48 AM |
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The only thing a claim (either GPAA or otherwise) gives the owners of, is the rights to the minerals on it. The general public can still camp, hunt, fish, hike, etc.
Don't know about CA, but in Oregon, no corner markers are required if the claim follows survey lines, ie. 1/4 section or divisions of a 1/4.
Claim signs can disappear faster than they go up in a lot of cases. On my own claim my partner found that our location notice had been removed from it's PVC tube (waterproof), and it's zip-lock bag, urinated on, and put back.
Our chapter has adopted the three closest claims to us, and at least one of the members are usually up there every couple of weeks, and we check signs, trash, etc., and make needed corrections. Might try contacting the closest chapter and let them know, besides, you might find some new partners to get out with. |
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Leo Lorenz Basic Member Posts:486
| 16 Jul 2018 08:57 AM |
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My general understanding is that a claim is required to be maintained by the claim holder in order for it to be a "valid" claim. When a claim is filed, the requirements dictate that the prospect be properly marked with claim information. So...when you are out in the field and there are no markers properly placed, then it cannot be a valid claim. How can someone accuse another person of prospecting on their claim if they had not properly maintained it with visual indicators to inform people? My feelings are....shut your mouth if you fail to maintain your claim. If people are out there destroying your markers, then do something about it and rectify the problem. If you dont....then you dont care about your claim. The rules are clear and if they are followed, there would be less confusion. And those people who disrespect valid claim markers and destroy the markings/info should be held accountable.
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Dennis LynchGreenhorn Posts:17
| 16 Jul 2018 08:59 AM |
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Thanks for the reply Arthur. I knew that claims can be used by anyone for non mineral entry, but he, the BLM guy, left me with the impression that claim markers are very important. I also realize people pull them down a lot too. I wish I was close enough to a chapter to easily get to meetings. I'm about 1.5 hours from the closest one in Sacramento. Meeting others to go out with would be great. I was surprised that Nevada County has none.
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ARTHUR WAUGHAdvanced Member Posts:967
| 16 Jul 2018 09:05 AM |
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Dennis- Get hold of Walter in the main office and let him know the condition of the claims you went to. He can contact the owners or others and possibly get some signage up.
Might also check with the office and see about starting a chapter in your area, if you have the time and interest, they can help yyou out a lot in the process. |
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Leo LorenzBasic Member Posts:486
| 16 Jul 2018 09:05 AM |
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Aren't claims in the western states regulated by federal mining rules? How would they differ in each state regarding the requirement to mark them properly?
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Dennis LynchGreenhorn Posts:17
| 16 Jul 2018 09:13 AM |
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Leo, that was my understanding too. BLM said that if you are out prospecting on federal land open to mineral entry and find no claim markers, any one should feel free to prospect since looking for markers is considered due diligence. If challenged by a person saying they have rights to the claim site, you should leave and check to see if they are correct. If not report them to the BLM or local Sheriff , if it is a claim, find some place else. I would never challenge someone in the woods around here.
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WALTER EASON Buzzard Posts:581
| 16 Jul 2018 09:14 AM |
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A claim is valid until voided by BLM. Markers are dependent on local state statues in CA such as the Resource Code governing placer mining claims. PUBLIC RESOURCES CODE - PRC
DIVISION 3.5. MINES AND MINING [3900 - 3985]
3902 The location of a placer claim shall be made in the following manner:
(5)
(b) By marking the boundaries so that they may be readily traced and by erecting at each corner of the claim, or at the nearest accessible points thereto, a conspicuous and substantial monument. Each corner monument shall bear or contain markings sufficient to appropriately designate the corner of the mining claim to which it pertains and the name of the claim.
Where the United States survey has been extended over the land embraced in the location, the claim may be taken by legal subdivisions and no other reference than those of the survey shall be required, and the boundaries of a claim so located and described need not be staked or monumented. The description by legal subdivisions shall be deemed the equivalent of marking.
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ARTHUR WAUGHAdvanced Member Posts:967
| 16 Jul 2018 09:24 AM |
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BLM is the regulatory agency for all mining claims, no matter on what ground they are on. I can only speak to what the filing and marking rules are here in Oregon. Here we are required to file using Stevens/Ness forms, which are formulated specifically for the state.
That form states that nearly all states heve differing requirements for location notices, and that the Oregon requirements are used for that states form.
If not by legal subdivision (ie. 1/4 section or part of same), or not practial to describe by legal subdivision then you have to lay it out by direction and distance, and put posts at each change of direction, or every 1320 feet. That is off the front of the form, and I believe would be the same for any state, so that BLM can get it into the system and have knowledge of what is claimed or not. |
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Leo LorenzBasic Member Posts:486
| 16 Jul 2018 09:32 AM |
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....where are the woods you are referring to? I am thinking if a reasonable person states that he owns a particular unmarked claim, respecting his statement but doing your own followup is required, and that is DD. There are a lot of unreasonable psycho's out there.
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Dennis LynchGreenhorn Posts:17
| 16 Jul 2018 09:35 AM |
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So Walter, please excuse my ignorance, but what exactly is the "United States Survey" ? I googled it and got nothing other than the US Survey has been done by the USGS. I assume the entire country has been surveyed, which would mean no claim markers are needed in California. I realize I am no expert or even experienced, that's why I'm posting in "Greenhorns". I guess i don't understand your answer.
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Leo LorenzBasic Member Posts:486
| 16 Jul 2018 09:37 AM |
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Art, when they say ....if not by legal sub division....they are saying that the claim being legally subdivided does not need markers, and absent that legal subdivision....claim markers would need to be posted and monumentalized?
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Dennis LynchGreenhorn Posts:17
| 16 Jul 2018 09:46 AM |
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Leo, I meant that no matter where in the Northern California forest I was, I would not challenge someone telling me to leave. Like you said, "there are a lot of unreasonable psycho's out there". The tweaker problem around here is significant.
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ARTHUR WAUGHAdvanced Member Posts:967
| 16 Jul 2018 09:56 AM |
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Correct. Legal subdivision would be by township, range, section and then by the breakdown of sections. If an oddball shape, ie. most lode claims will follow the vein direction, them corner markers required.
Some states may require corner markers no matter what, but not up on them as I don't get to them.
The claims I'm familiar with here in Oregon are all by legal subdivision so we don't have to mark the corners, but a couple of the GPAA claims we have tried to GPS the corners and mark as near as possible with the 2-3 inch square signs. Those can be nasty to find as my county, if pulled flat would be as big as some states. One of my clubs has a claim of 20 acres, and one corner is a good thousand feet above the creek that is in the middle of the claim. One GPAA claim out of Cottage Grove has the same issue.
Otherwise we have tried to put up signs on the most convient tree to the edge of them so that it is visible to people at the access points.
My own claim I have two signs on it, one at the campsite stating that it runs a certain distance up and down stream from that point, location notice tube is also at that point, and another at the edge on the road as you enter it. Both are out of reach from ground level, but still in plain sight from the ground or vehicle. |
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Leo LorenzBasic Member Posts:486
| 16 Jul 2018 10:07 AM |
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Gee...I think camping out in California has so many risks and yet display of a firearm is prohibited right? AT night you can be attacked by bears, mountain lions, wacky tweakers, drug smugglers or growers...
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ARTHUR WAUGHAdvanced Member Posts:967
| 16 Jul 2018 10:20 AM |
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Don't worry too much about the 4 footed creatures, but the 2 footed varity are beginng to be a problem up here as well. Since I have a permit, I don't display, but open carry is legal here without one. Saves a lot of confusion by those not associated with our camp.
CA is a special case, along with most eastern states, they tend to favor the more non-savory element. |
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WALTER EASONBuzzard Posts:581
| 16 Jul 2018 10:45 AM |
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Hi Dennis That is an area that has an accepted survey or an accepted provisional survey. That I think would include just about all of California and most other states. Aside of location / discovery monument amended mining law accepts local (state) jurisdictional statures or codes for other parts of location. Mining law still has president in actual validity and file validity of a claim except for more stringent regulation for county recording in location when applied by local authority. For instance the forest service to void a claim has to petition BLM for it to be voided.
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William HallBuzzard Posts:660
| 16 Jul 2018 04:00 PM |
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In the case of a valid claim, the end all be all in California is the county recorders office.
The BLM/Forest Circus will take your $$$, file a claim within, but until you register in the county, the claim is invalid no matter what BLM tells ya, thus the pissin match begins
Weapon concealed needs a CCW permit
Open forest/desert land is legal to open carry, no concealment like your jacket hanging over = trouble
I carry when in certain area's, you bet.
If populations are near by, he's probably in my backpack.
I would agree with Arthur, dont worry to much about the 4 legged criters, be aware of your surroundings.
Bill
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Leo LorenzBasic Member Posts:486
| 17 Jul 2018 06:42 AM |
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Bill,
You say....if populations are near by, he's probably in my backpack.......Ok....so isnt that concealed carry??
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Dennis LynchGreenhorn Posts:17
| 17 Jul 2018 07:19 AM |
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Well, I'm surprised that there are no markers at claims in Ca. even if they do get pulled down from time to time or they are not required by law. I do a lot of hiking in Northern California and claim markers are common and widely used. I know I wouldn't prospect on a marked claim and I assume many decent prospectors and hobbyists would also not violate a claim. Doesn't seem right, but I'm new and I guess my expectations are off.
Part of the reason i joined is because so many places I have wanted to prospect in California are marked claims, so I don't prospect there. I assume a lot of non members must regularly use GPAA claims since there is no way for a casual hobbyist wandering around the mountains to know they are on a claim.
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